Posts by Marvin Shilmer

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Marvin Shilmer

Getting to a public sidewalk isn't like getting across the border. If you've been trespassing and being a nuisance then it doesn't matter if you 'get to the public sidewalk'. You can be arrested in public areas whether you commit a crime there or have arrived there after committing a crime on someone else's property.

That's true. In the MckKnney pool party incident, if privately owned property was properly posted with No Trespassing signs then anyone who breached the directive on that sign was subject to arrest for criminal trespassing whether law enforcement eventually found them on that private property or other public property. The crime had already taken place, and so long as there was sufficient evidence charges could be sustained.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Marvin Shilmer

Wow, how can "failing to sit down when requested" be obnoxious.

When you're called to a scene of reported crowd violence and you're duty is to restore order to be able to ascertain who or what in that crowd represents a danger to safety and you issue instruction to either disperse of sit down, and an individual repeatedly responds by doing neither, and then when they do finally start complying by leaving the scene and THEN TURN AROUND and start walking right back to the scene, it is more than stupid, it is obnoxious.

I wouldn't sit on the ground either if I didn't want to.

A police officer who asks you to assume a sitting position for sake of your safety and his own is not making an unreasonable request in a circumstance like the McKinney pool party incident. If in that instance you refused such an order, in the USA you'll more than likely find yourself being handled to the ground, and if you resist in the slightest you'll probably find yourself cuffed until the officer can resolve whatever is going on to make sure safety is maintained for everyone, including you. If you don't like that you will have opportunity to tell it to a judge, and/or some other government official if you like.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Marvin Shilmer

You say they are public right of way, Morpheus says they are private land - who is right!

I don't know in this instance if the sidewalks are on public right-of-way or not. I suspect they are a public right-of-way, but again could not say for sure. My question to you is: Why does it matter so much? Assuming police responded to a scene on public property with a large and unruly crowd with reported violence, what do you expect them to do when individuals in the crowd fail to follow simple instructions to restore order and keep everyone safe while the disorder is still going on and police still have no idea who in the crowd, if anyone, represents a threat to anyone's safety? These police were not called to the scene because they had done something. The police were called to the scene because supposedly multiple individuals in the crowd had done something violent that was threatening safety. Were their knives? The police had no idea? Were their guns? The police had no idea. Until order was restored the police were having to look in every direction and suspect multiple individuals around them attempting to figure out what was going on.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Marvin Shilmer

So, in the USA, all sidewalks are private property,...

For the most part, sidewalks in the USA are on public right of way. There are exceptions, but generally that is the case. But that does not matter in relation to police called to a scene with an unruly crowd, and particularly when violence has been reported in that crowd. In this case the police rightly act to restore order to protect public safety, which is everyone's safety. The police know walking in to the situation that they have exposure to harm, which is one reason why they wear protective gear and weapons. They are being put in harms way to keep everyone as safe as possible. This is why the public (on "public land") has an obligation to respond to reasonable instructions from law enforcement to restore order. Standing idly by pointing a video camera is pretty much a sure sign that that individual represents no threat and is not fomenting more misbehavior or getting in the way of restoring order. But obnoxiously failing to either disperse or sit down when requested to do so in this kind of circumstance is just plain stupid, and arguably an interference of a peace officer attempting to keep the peace, which is a punishable offense should an officer wish to pursue it.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Marvin Shilmer

...what should the police do when people refuse to follow the law and resist the efforts of police to peacefully enforce the law? Should the police just give up and leave the scene?

Alternately, should the police stay on the scene and just leave themselves as standing targets in the face of refusal to reasonable instructions to bring order to the crowd?

The only option I see for the officers sent to the McKinney pool party incident was for them to initiate attempt to restore order to the scene and not stop until that order was obtained. Otherwise everyone's safety remains in needless danger.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Marvin Shilmer

It's easy to say work with what you have when by birth in the country certain people get more.

I'm unsure who that statement is directed toward, but in response I'll say this: Life on earth has never been fair. Human society has never been fair. Life in the universe is not fair. If we are looking for fairness we're looking in the wrong place. Fairness is something we can do based on our own perception of fair. But others have different perceptions of what is fair, and yet others could not care less about whatever is or is not fair. That is the world we live in.

As humans the thing we can control most of all is our own actions. From there our control becomes less and less until, ultimately, there are things that are completely out of individual control. So working with what have is the thing we can most effectively pursue. That is the most pragmatic thing any human can and should realize, and act on. Parents who are not teaching their children that working hard and working smart presents the best opportunity to improve their personal life are doing a great disservice to those children. We can try to improve whatever government we can or choose to live under, but we cannot count on government for making our life successful. The one we have the most control over is our self, and that's what our children have to be raised to understand.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Marvin Shilmer

Yet another amazing article on how the Government was the root of a lot of this mess.

We have essentially two choices with "the Government" in the USA.

1. Exercise individual liberty to vote, or

2. Find another government you like better and live there.

I don't know any other options. Do you?

In the meantime, if we're voting and if we've chosen to stay where we are, then we have to work with what we have the best we can. My opinion is that starts with parents teaching their children how to behave in society for their own sake, the local community's sake, and the sake of society as a whole. When parents don't do this things happen and sometimes the police are called to respond to an emergency. In those minutes of response no police officer is going to be able to bring our children up to speed on how to properly behave, and they are not going to try (or at least they shouldn't in those moments). Instead they are going to intervene to restore order. They are going to act to just STOP things where they are. Those law enforcement officers might be loud. They might use vulgar language. They might instruct completely innocent individuals to sit or lay down. They might handcuff some too, even if they have to exert force to do so. They will bark orders. They will finger point. They will assert themselves. And they should do any and all of this if that is what it takes to protect my or your child from harm if it's possible to do so. Oh, and we should applaud them for being willing to take and do this messy job in the moments they have to keep people safe.

Had my child been at the McKinney pool party and had she been the one behaving badly to the point where she was roughly subdued, and had this video been streaming live as it happened, I'd have been GLAD!!! Why? Because this parent would not have had to wonder if my child was okay. I'd know that though I'd failed to teach her proper conduct that nevertheless she was alive, not to mention healthy enough to resist a full-grown policeman. Let me be perfectly honest and say I'd not like to see my child getting handled roughly by police. But I would have been one of the few parents who knew my child was okay despite the melee. I also hope that I would have the courage to resist attempts by lawyers to collect a payday by filing suit against the city alleging police brutality. I hope I would have the courage to look myself in the mirror and ask where I want wrong teaching my child that it was okay to act so stupidly and so disrespectfully to people I help pay to enforce law and order.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Marvin Shilmer

...And [name your fool] will feel justified and do it again.

It's a bane of our society. We justify the unjustifiable and expect things to get better.

You can't fix stupid. You just have to stop it. And who do we call to stop it? The police of course. After all, that's what we pay them for. Right? Only too often we expect them to babysit little Jacky and Johnny when public safety requires restoring order first. What happens when police let themselves become babysitters in the face of an unruly crowd with violence reported? On the periphery of the scene someone ends up getting beaten, stabbed or shot because the police were holding some whinny crybaby's hand rather than restoring order. Then what happens? We have a grieving family because someone got seriously injured.

Don't call the police and expect them to be babysitters. When police find themselves called to an unruly scene where violence is reported they will immediately begin to restore order, or at least that's what they should do. If it takes the foulest of language to do so, I don't care personally. Even if it takes upsetting some gal in a bikini who does not want to lie face down. Again, I don't care personally. I don't want my child to be beaten, stabbed or shot because a police officer was holding some crybaby's hand rather than diligently attempting to restore order to an unruly crowd with reported violence. Frankly, I'd rather my child be the one handcuffed and laying flat on her face crying her eyes out. At least then I'd know she's not the one getting shot or stabbed behind cars or shrubs by some emotional person trying to settle some petty score.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Marvin Shilmer

Marvin can you weigh-in on the little bitch. Is she indeed a little bitch?

I'm not sure who you're asking me to comment on. Is it the bikini clad gal who failed to follow reasonable instruction over and over again to leave, and then when she did basically leave turned around and started walking right back to where she had been told to leave from? I think she's a misguided, self-centered brat who, probably for the first time in her life, met the cold hard reality that actions bring consequences and that police officers are not her babysitters.

Can you weigh in on the adult woman punching the child in the head when she wasn't involved in the fight instead of just pulling the big gal off the little gal like the two boys did?

I don't know what you're talking about. My observations in this discussion have been about the absolute sorry state of unruliness that we expect our police officers to intervene in, restore order and protect safety. If you're talking about the video of a fight that occurred prior to the police I haven't given it a lot of attention. I watched it a couple times and came away with the same impression each time, that it's just another incident of people not being able to contain themselves when they have only themselves to supervise. When these things happen my view is that both sides carry culpability, though perhaps not equal culpability. Fights like this are stupid. I have no idea who started what and don't really care.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Marvin Shilmer

Police officers are not baby sitters. They are called to a scene like this to intervene, restore order and protect public safety.

In this incident police were called to a scene, and then more police were called to the scene, and then more police were called to the scene. This could easily have escalated and folks could have been seriously injured, not because of police but because of why the police were called, and then more called, and then more called for after that. I don't think most here have the foggiest idea what it is like to be essentially parachuted in to a scene where you're surrounded by folks that include some obnoxious self-centered individuals, reported violence, and with no idea who's packing a weapon. Oh, and their job is to restore order and protect life.

Then we have a gal prancing around, being mouthy, failing repeatedly to follow the simplest of instruction to leave, then when she does basically leave she TURNS AROUND and starts walking right back! And it does not stop there. Now the officer she's defying attempts to detain her and what does she do? She resists. She does not sit down on her own. She does not roll over face down on her own. No. This poor gal had never been taught that in real life SHE is not the center of the universe and actions will have consequences.

What I saw in the McKinney pool party video is a clash of expectations. Police expected to have reasonable instructions obeyed. Teenage brats expected the police to respond just like their parents when reasonable instructions are disobeyed; nothing. The teenagers were wrong. The police are not their baby sitters like momma and daddy are. Parents of the unruly children should be holding their heads in shame, but more than likely will be interviewing lawyers to see which one can garner the biggest payday for them.

I think every police officer on that scene deserves a commendation, if for no other reason being willing to respond to sorry crap like this when we call them. Children of these police officers should hold their heads high, knowing their parents are willing to step up when called to do so. Oh, and it's not for a whole lot of money either that they do this.